Ask the Experts AMA

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Guest Miner:

Sylvain Gauchet

💎 x

11

Various experts answer questions on mobile marketing, growth and development: Kristy Barger (Sr. Programmatic Demand Lead at MoPub - Ad Network), Mary Yang (Director of Product at LinkedIn, previously CPO at Smule), Lomit Patel (VP Growth at IMVU - Social Networking Game), Deniz Gezgin (COO at Epics Digital Collectible, previously Machine Zone, Zynga, etc.) and Jeet Niyogi (VP Marketing at Playtika Canada - Poker Games and more). Moderated by Tony Wang (Co-found & Head of Emerging Technologies at Agora - interactive video, voice and messaging).

Source:

Ask the Experts AMA

(no direct link to watch/listen)

(direct link to watch/listen)
‍

Type:

Panel

Publication date:

June 3, 2020

Added to the Vault on:

June 6, 2020

NOTES Gems Discussion

These insights were shared through the free Growth Gems newsletter.

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💎 #

1

Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.

15:44

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

2

The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.

22:58

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

3

The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.

25:28

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

4

With the pandemic there is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.

26:18

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

5

The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.

26:49

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

6

When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

27:33

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

7

Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.

29:42

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

8

Even when you have a large budget you still work a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.

30:51

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

9

To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.

32:17

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

10

The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.

37:45

View gem in the Notes

💎 #

11

Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

40:29

View gem in the Notes

The gems from this resource are only available to premium members.

💎 #

1

Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.

15:44

💎 #

2

The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.

22:58

💎 #

3

The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.

25:28

💎 #

4

With the pandemic there is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.

26:18

💎 #

5

The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.

26:49

💎 #

6

When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

27:33

💎 #

7

Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.

29:42

💎 #

8

Even when you have a large budget you still work a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.

30:51

💎 #

9

To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.

32:17

💎 #

10

The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.

37:45

💎 #

11

Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

40:29

The gems from this resource are only available to premium members.

Gems are the key bite-size insights "mined" from a specific mobile marketing resource, like a webinar, a panel or a podcast.
They allow you to save time by grasping the most important information in a couple of minutes, and also each include the timestamp from the source.
‍

💎 #

1

Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.

15:44

💎 #

2

The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.

22:58

💎 #

3

The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.

25:28

💎 #

4

With the pandemic there is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.

26:18

💎 #

5

The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.

26:49

💎 #

6

When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

27:33

💎 #

7

Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.

29:42

💎 #

8

Even when you have a large budget you still work a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.

30:51

💎 #

9

To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.

32:17

💎 #

10

The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.

37:45

💎 #

11

Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

40:29

NOTES Gems Discussion

Notes for this resource are currently being transferred and will be available soon.

User behavior trends during the pandemic

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible) - Everything is up

Usage (session duration, # of sessions, etc.) has increased
Slightly more revenue and ARPU is up
Retention is up especially for new users coming in

Lomit (IMVU)

Virtual Reality social network so has seen a huge increase in usage
Record level of ARPU
Users spending more time in the app, especially because the app is centered around social connections
Biggest problem has been to increase the servers' capacity to respond to demand

Jeet (Playtika)

Blessing for the gaming industry
CPIs/CPMs at a very good level
More than 10/20% increase in engagement
Improvement in revenue

Kristy (MoPub)

MoPub is 100% mobile ad exchange
More time spent in the apps and increase in UA, especially in gaming/music apps. Food as a category has been down (besides delivery).
Saw a dip on the brand side but it is coming back

Mary (LinkedIn)

People generally more talkative through apps because they can't meet in person
LinkedIn has social network aspects and enterprise product lines. They can tell how each industry are doing. After a dip they have seen Sales through LinkedIn increase, as well as job seeking.
Saw a dip on messenger then increased again. More people are also spending more desktop screen time and composing longer messages.
Investing in features helping to reach out to people outside of their network.

How would you describe incrementality and which advice would you give?

Jeet (Playtika)

Incrementality is a buzzword but a very relevant one
The concept of incrementality is: for additional investment, what is the amount of growth or improvement do you see?
Incrementality is particularly interesting in the context of retargeting. Are additional investments actually increasing users coming back or engagement?
Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars.
[💎@15:44] Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.
Doing this well is where a lot of people fail.

How do you recreate online the social dynamics of the real world?

Lomit (IMVU)

It took them longer to get into mobile because a lot of things were taking a lot of bandwidth on desktop. Had to figure out the watered down experience that can be provided on mobile but still be valuable.
Things that really matter for their users is making connections and friendships: chat rooms, chat functionalities, customizing look & feel of their avatar and the virtual world they create.

Strategies that you see working in terms of acquisition strategy?

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

One of the main verticals is esports.
During the pandemic they shifted their marketing spend from Facebook/Google to Twitch and streamers and also shifted their content strategy.
They do not foresee people spending less time even after the pandemic for at least 6-9 months.

Jeet (Playtika)

[💎@22:58] The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.
Everything is changing

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Doesn't think that things are going to go back to normal easily

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@25:28] The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.
[💎@26:18] There is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.
[💎@26:49] The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.
[💎@27:33] When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Uploaded a very simple LTV calculator

How highly do you value influencer marketing in the mobile space?

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@29:42] Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.
Influencers they're working with now are very different, they are now focusing on TikTok influencers.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@30:51] Even when you have a large budget you do a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.
Clear the thinking that you can work only with a specific type of influencers. Try out-of-the-box influencers.
How to attribute/measure and correlate when it comes to influencers?
[💎@32:17] To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.
Influencers can forget to use their links so can not rely on just that.

Lomit (IMVU)

Try to do a How Did You Hear About Us survey to try and attribute users to an influencer campaign.

Feeding the LinkedIn community

LinkedIn meant to me for everyone, not just influencers. They do have a strategy to help audience builders where they think about:

How can they reach a bigger size of an audience?
What can help them be more effective in talking to their audience?
How can they make money out of posting on LinkedIn?

They provide audience builders with a set of tools to help them understand their audience, target the right audience and build their reputation.

Jeet (Playtika) on AI

[💎@37:45] The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.
They use AI to identify the signals and the user behavior, and use that to create features that improve the journey.
People talk about creatives, geos, platforms. But the name of the game is targeting: if you're not able to target the most relevant user for the app, half the battle is lost and this is what can be solved by AI.

Importance of geos

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@40:29] Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

Lomit (IMVU)

Even in the virtual world, people want to connect with others that have an understanding of where they're coming from: same language, etc.
Try to make things culturally relevant: skin tones, etc.

The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.

User behavior trends during the pandemic

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible) - Everything is up

Usage (session duration, # of sessions, etc.) has increased
Slightly more revenue and ARPU is up
Retention is up especially for new users coming in

Lomit (IMVU)

Virtual Reality social network so has seen a huge increase in usage
Record level of ARPU
Users spending more time in the app, especially because the app is centered around social connections
Biggest problem has been to increase the servers' capacity to respond to demand

Jeet (Playtika)

Blessing for the gaming industry
CPIs/CPMs at a very good level
More than 10/20% increase in engagement
Improvement in revenue

Kristy (MoPub)

MoPub is 100% mobile ad exchange
More time spent in the apps and increase in UA, especially in gaming/music apps. Food as a category has been down (besides delivery).
Saw a dip on the brand side but it is coming back

Mary (LinkedIn)

People generally more talkative through apps because they can't meet in person
LinkedIn has social network aspects and enterprise product lines. They can tell how each industry are doing. After a dip they have seen Sales through LinkedIn increase, as well as job seeking.
Saw a dip on messenger then increased again. More people are also spending more desktop screen time and composing longer messages.
Investing in features helping to reach out to people outside of their network.

How would you describe incrementality and which advice would you give?

Jeet (Playtika)

Incrementality is a buzzword but a very relevant one
The concept of incrementality is: for additional investment, what is the amount of growth or improvement do you see?
Incrementality is particularly interesting in the context of retargeting. Are additional investments actually increasing users coming back or engagement?
Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars.
[💎@15:44] Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.
Doing this well is where a lot of people fail.

How do you recreate online the social dynamics of the real world?

Lomit (IMVU)

It took them longer to get into mobile because a lot of things were taking a lot of bandwidth on desktop. Had to figure out the watered down experience that can be provided on mobile but still be valuable.
Things that really matter for their users is making connections and friendships: chat rooms, chat functionalities, customizing look & feel of their avatar and the virtual world they create.

Strategies that you see working in terms of acquisition strategy?

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

One of the main verticals is esports.
During the pandemic they shifted their marketing spend from Facebook/Google to Twitch and streamers and also shifted their content strategy.
They do not foresee people spending less time even after the pandemic for at least 6-9 months.

Jeet (Playtika)

[💎@22:58] The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.
Everything is changing

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Doesn't think that things are going to go back to normal easily

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@25:28] The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.
[💎@26:18] There is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.
[💎@26:49] The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.
[💎@27:33] When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Uploaded a very simple LTV calculator

How highly do you value influencer marketing in the mobile space?

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@29:42] Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.
Influencers they're working with now are very different, they are now focusing on TikTok influencers.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@30:51] Even when you have a large budget you do a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.
Clear the thinking that you can work only with a specific type of influencers. Try out-of-the-box influencers.
How to attribute/measure and correlate when it comes to influencers?
[💎@32:17] To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.
Influencers can forget to use their links so can not rely on just that.

Lomit (IMVU)

Try to do a How Did You Hear About Us survey to try and attribute users to an influencer campaign.

Feeding the LinkedIn community

LinkedIn meant to me for everyone, not just influencers. They do have a strategy to help audience builders where they think about:

How can they reach a bigger size of an audience?
What can help them be more effective in talking to their audience?
How can they make money out of posting on LinkedIn?

They provide audience builders with a set of tools to help them understand their audience, target the right audience and build their reputation.

Jeet (Playtika) on AI

[💎@37:45] The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.
They use AI to identify the signals and the user behavior, and use that to create features that improve the journey.
People talk about creatives, geos, platforms. But the name of the game is targeting: if you're not able to target the most relevant user for the app, half the battle is lost and this is what can be solved by AI.

Importance of geos

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@40:29] Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

Lomit (IMVU)

Even in the virtual world, people want to connect with others that have an understanding of where they're coming from: same language, etc.
Try to make things culturally relevant: skin tones, etc.

The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.

User behavior trends during the pandemic

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible) - Everything is up

Usage (session duration, # of sessions, etc.) has increased
Slightly more revenue and ARPU is up
Retention is up especially for new users coming in

Lomit (IMVU)

Virtual Reality social network so has seen a huge increase in usage
Record level of ARPU
Users spending more time in the app, especially because the app is centered around social connections
Biggest problem has been to increase the servers' capacity to respond to demand

Jeet (Playtika)

Blessing for the gaming industry
CPIs/CPMs at a very good level
More than 10/20% increase in engagement
Improvement in revenue

Kristy (MoPub)

MoPub is 100% mobile ad exchange
More time spent in the apps and increase in UA, especially in gaming/music apps. Food as a category has been down (besides delivery).
Saw a dip on the brand side but it is coming back

Mary (LinkedIn)

People generally more talkative through apps because they can't meet in person
LinkedIn has social network aspects and enterprise product lines. They can tell how each industry are doing. After a dip they have seen Sales through LinkedIn increase, as well as job seeking.
Saw a dip on messenger then increased again. More people are also spending more desktop screen time and composing longer messages.
Investing in features helping to reach out to people outside of their network.

How would you describe incrementality and which advice would you give?

Jeet (Playtika)

Incrementality is a buzzword but a very relevant one
The concept of incrementality is: for additional investment, what is the amount of growth or improvement do you see?
Incrementality is particularly interesting in the context of retargeting. Are additional investments actually increasing users coming back or engagement?
Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars.
[💎@15:44] Incrementality is the most relevant way to measure the effectiveness of your dollars. You can do it by picking the right control/hold out groups and measuring the effectiveness of an ad that is seen by one group, for example the additional ARPU or retention that you're seeing.
Doing this well is where a lot of people fail.

How do you recreate online the social dynamics of the real world?

Lomit (IMVU)

It took them longer to get into mobile because a lot of things were taking a lot of bandwidth on desktop. Had to figure out the watered down experience that can be provided on mobile but still be valuable.
Things that really matter for their users is making connections and friendships: chat rooms, chat functionalities, customizing look & feel of their avatar and the virtual world they create.

Strategies that you see working in terms of acquisition strategy?

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

One of the main verticals is esports.
During the pandemic they shifted their marketing spend from Facebook/Google to Twitch and streamers and also shifted their content strategy.
They do not foresee people spending less time even after the pandemic for at least 6-9 months.

Jeet (Playtika)

[💎@22:58] The growth strategy is a mix of proactive and reactive actions. As marketers you evolve in a changing environment (regardless of the virus or vertical) and you have to constantly optimize to reach your profitability goals so you use different marketing levers and tweak retention/monetization strategies.
Everything is changing

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Doesn't think that things are going to go back to normal easily

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@25:28] The main thing is to be open to trying new things, whether it's good times or bad times. Continue to test, learn and iterate. Try to increase the velocity of testing to identify new opportunities.
[💎@26:18] There is a trend of getting more organic users (increase of organic to paid ratio). Try to figure out how to get better at attracting users via referrals and word of mouth through triggering behaviors and using incentives.
[💎@26:49] The pandemic has been a great time to go back and do more retargeting and reengagement campaigns to a longer attribution window (from 3-6 months to 1-2 years). Reengaging this lapsed users can be very cost-effective.
[💎@27:33] When times are good it's very expensive to get good influencers but now it is easier to negotiate different terms vs. 3 years ago so have started using more influencers again.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

Uploaded a very simple LTV calculator

How highly do you value influencer marketing in the mobile space?

Lomit (IMVU)

[💎@29:42] Generally working with small/micro influencers is better than working with big influencers because it makes it easier to get them to go above and beyond. It's also a way to test and learn how to work with influencers.
Influencers they're working with now are very different, they are now focusing on TikTok influencers.

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@30:51] Even when you have a large budget you do a lot with smaller influencers: 75-80% with many small influencers and about 20% with big influencers.
Clear the thinking that you can work only with a specific type of influencers. Try out-of-the-box influencers.
How to attribute/measure and correlate when it comes to influencers?
[💎@32:17] To measure the impact of influencers use the lift from the baseline. They usually work with an agency and the contract is based on the lift: 30-day average prior to campaign vs. the next 60-day average where you pay a CPI based on that lift.
Influencers can forget to use their links so can not rely on just that.

Lomit (IMVU)

Try to do a How Did You Hear About Us survey to try and attribute users to an influencer campaign.

Feeding the LinkedIn community

LinkedIn meant to me for everyone, not just influencers. They do have a strategy to help audience builders where they think about:

How can they reach a bigger size of an audience?
What can help them be more effective in talking to their audience?
How can they make money out of posting on LinkedIn?

They provide audience builders with a set of tools to help them understand their audience, target the right audience and build their reputation.

Jeet (Playtika) on AI

[💎@37:45] The main goal is to give users what they want from a product/game perspective so data analysts leverage A.I to look at what can be created (for each group of users) from a feature and live op event point of view that would keep them around.
They use AI to identify the signals and the user behavior, and use that to create features that improve the journey.
People talk about creatives, geos, platforms. But the name of the game is targeting: if you're not able to target the most relevant user for the app, half the battle is lost and this is what can be solved by AI.

Importance of geos

Deniz (Epics Digital Collectible)

[💎@40:29] Localization is going to be a weak word in the next 2/3 years: culturalization is going to be much more important for any product in order to penetrate some geos.

Lomit (IMVU)

Even in the virtual world, people want to connect with others that have an understanding of where they're coming from: same language, etc.
Try to make things culturally relevant: skin tones, etc.