Mama Connect Episode 1 - Growth Mindset

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6

AppsFlyer's David Llewellyn discusses growth mindset with leading mobile marketing experts: Andy Carvell (Partner at Phiture), Georgy Natsvilishvili (Head of Organic Growth at Glovo) and Dora Trostanetsky (Senior Manager, Growth & Optimization)

Source:
Mama Connect Episode 1 - Growth Mindset
(no direct link to watch/listen)
(direct link to watch/listen)
Type:
Webinar
Publication date:
April 13, 2020
Added to the Vault on:
April 16, 2020
These insights were shared through the free Growth Gems newsletter.
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💎 #
1

A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive. 

22:21
💎 #
2

If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking. 

25:00
💎 #
3

Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics. 

34:15
💎 #
4

Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms. 

35;23
💎 #
5

A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team. 

43:34
💎 #
6

Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.  

52:42
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💎 #
1

A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive. 

22:21
💎 #
2

If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking. 

25:00
💎 #
3

Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics. 

34:15
💎 #
4

Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms. 

35;23
💎 #
5

A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team. 

43:34
💎 #
6

Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.  

52:42
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💎 #
1

A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive. 

22:21
💎 #
2

If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking. 

25:00
💎 #
3

Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics. 

34:15
💎 #
4

Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms. 

35;23
💎 #
5

A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team. 

43:34
💎 #
6

Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.  

52:42
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Growth vs. Traction

Brian Balfour's definition


In 2015 Andy went to see several companies (Airbnb, Tumblr, Facebook, Pinterest, Etsy) to understand how they were approaching growth.


There is no one single way to do growth. Each company has different problems and focus areas depending on when they set up the growth team, the size of the company.


Soundcloud

Currently 1 growth team, responsible for both acquisition and retention topics. They do not slice the user journey yet.

  • 1 PM
  • 6 Engineers
  • Marketing
  • CRM


Georgy feels like this model is a bit outdated ("2015") and doesn't make sense right now. He feels like the "project manager" role is missing because product managers can not deal both with a lot of projects + managing the engineering.


Glovo

Before there was no one dedicated to technical marketing projects and the tech team was focused on operations and they could not get the resources needed. It was also hard to get product changes like SDK implementations, etc.

So they decided to create a tech team where the main aim was to satisfied the online marketing needs. That team became more complex and cross functional, working on a lot of projects. 2 main phases:

Initially:

  • they had a "Head of AdTech Team" operating as a product manager but it was hard to manage.
  • AdTech specialist were "pure" engineers (not marketing savvy) and did not know their exact goal

Transition:

  • Hired a project manager to organize the AdTech team. Also helps solves the issues that arise.
  • Changed for an AdTech specialist that had worked in marketing and understood what he was doing, provided alternative ideas, efficiency improvements, etc.
  • Completed 100s of projects across all aspects of the business: template development, analytics, data API, etc. ⇒ instead of hiring additional persons that would do manual tasks they implemented automated reports which increased efficiency.


Balancing growth and product

Initially at SoundCloud the growth team was reporting to VP product and had design/engineering/marketing. Andy led the team as a product manager "a marketer in a product clothing".

[💎@22:21] A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive.


At SoundCloud growth still belongs to product and VP Product balances growth and product roadmaps.


Metrics

Regarding metrics they look beyond the "vanity metrics" like DAU/MAU but they try to identify metrics that are showing retention and engagement: we want people to find music and listen to music. Some metrics that show users find what they are looking for:

  • Likes/Shares/Comments
  • Stickiness metric: what is the % of users that are active daily or weekly within a timeframe.
  • [💎@25:00] If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking.


Challenges of setting up a growth team

  • Responsibility is a challenge because the team is cross-functional. Who is in charge?
  • VP of growth also needs to be open to implement innovative stuff.
  • At SoundCloud it is the project manager that leads the team but other team members come from different teams and have different managers (report to other people, not the project manager).
  • Product leader decides how to prioritize across all product team, including the growth team. Need to make sure that everyone is on the same page.
  • Phiture's clients have various setups but challenges tend to be the same
    - [💎@34:15] Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics.
    - You don't just want people that want to "build new stuff". Same thing for designers.
    - [💎@35:23] Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms.
    - The team will probably need to do this 5 or 6 times before getting buy-in from the rest of the organization.


Prioritize people with growth experience or mindset?

  • Probably mindset > experience but ideally both. If you have the mindset and the eagerness to learn you are going to get that experience relatively quickly. At Phiture they work on so many apps that everybody learns quickly.
  • On the other hand if everybody is new to it then the team will repeat mistakes. So you need a balance between experience and mindset.
  • Most of the time tests do not change much the user behavior so you are really not looking for the silver bullet. A failure is a learning as well.


When is the right time for a company to set up a dedicated growth team?

It requires dedicated resources. You should not try this too early. You want to look at which phase you are in: Traction, Transition or Growth (cf. first slide at the top of the notes). When you're at the growth stage you already have:

  • You already have product/market fit
  • You built traction
  • You discovered most of the growth levers


[💎@43:34] A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team.


If it's too early and you haven't fixed the basic stuff you will not benefit from a growth team.


Ten slides in ten minutes


  • UA automation: traditional top of funnel  activities are increasingly automated (UAC, FB, other platforms)
  • Mobile marketers have long been optimizing towards deeper funnel KPIs. You don't want to silo growth squads (acquisition vs. product - they could conflict), you want integrated growth where the growth team oversight covers the user lifecycle.
  • Growth squads should be created to fit the business: independant, functional, business challenges.
  • Growth teams should be autonomous, empowered, understood and trusted.
  • Any mix of Engineering/Marketing/Product/Ops/BI/Design/Project Management/Business-Commercial
  • Top down support is a must to make it work
  • Growth squad roles, responsibilities and objectives should be the primary focus of its members. No vanity metrics.
  • Leadership is typically project manager, product owner or VP growth.
  • Decisions should be data driven (you need an analyst), balanced (keeping the users experience excellent) and sustainable.


[💎@52:42] Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.



The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.
↘ At this point, you know what to do ↙
Upgrade Your Plan

Growth vs. Traction

Brian Balfour's definition


In 2015 Andy went to see several companies (Airbnb, Tumblr, Facebook, Pinterest, Etsy) to understand how they were approaching growth.


There is no one single way to do growth. Each company has different problems and focus areas depending on when they set up the growth team, the size of the company.


Soundcloud

Currently 1 growth team, responsible for both acquisition and retention topics. They do not slice the user journey yet.

  • 1 PM
  • 6 Engineers
  • Marketing
  • CRM


Georgy feels like this model is a bit outdated ("2015") and doesn't make sense right now. He feels like the "project manager" role is missing because product managers can not deal both with a lot of projects + managing the engineering.


Glovo

Before there was no one dedicated to technical marketing projects and the tech team was focused on operations and they could not get the resources needed. It was also hard to get product changes like SDK implementations, etc.

So they decided to create a tech team where the main aim was to satisfied the online marketing needs. That team became more complex and cross functional, working on a lot of projects. 2 main phases:

Initially:

  • they had a "Head of AdTech Team" operating as a product manager but it was hard to manage.
  • AdTech specialist were "pure" engineers (not marketing savvy) and did not know their exact goal

Transition:

  • Hired a project manager to organize the AdTech team. Also helps solves the issues that arise.
  • Changed for an AdTech specialist that had worked in marketing and understood what he was doing, provided alternative ideas, efficiency improvements, etc.
  • Completed 100s of projects across all aspects of the business: template development, analytics, data API, etc. ⇒ instead of hiring additional persons that would do manual tasks they implemented automated reports which increased efficiency.


Balancing growth and product

Initially at SoundCloud the growth team was reporting to VP product and had design/engineering/marketing. Andy led the team as a product manager "a marketer in a product clothing".

[💎@22:21] A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive.


At SoundCloud growth still belongs to product and VP Product balances growth and product roadmaps.


Metrics

Regarding metrics they look beyond the "vanity metrics" like DAU/MAU but they try to identify metrics that are showing retention and engagement: we want people to find music and listen to music. Some metrics that show users find what they are looking for:

  • Likes/Shares/Comments
  • Stickiness metric: what is the % of users that are active daily or weekly within a timeframe.
  • [💎@25:00] If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking.


Challenges of setting up a growth team

  • Responsibility is a challenge because the team is cross-functional. Who is in charge?
  • VP of growth also needs to be open to implement innovative stuff.
  • At SoundCloud it is the project manager that leads the team but other team members come from different teams and have different managers (report to other people, not the project manager).
  • Product leader decides how to prioritize across all product team, including the growth team. Need to make sure that everyone is on the same page.
  • Phiture's clients have various setups but challenges tend to be the same
    - [💎@34:15] Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics.
    - You don't just want people that want to "build new stuff". Same thing for designers.
    - [💎@35:23] Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms.
    - The team will probably need to do this 5 or 6 times before getting buy-in from the rest of the organization.


Prioritize people with growth experience or mindset?

  • Probably mindset > experience but ideally both. If you have the mindset and the eagerness to learn you are going to get that experience relatively quickly. At Phiture they work on so many apps that everybody learns quickly.
  • On the other hand if everybody is new to it then the team will repeat mistakes. So you need a balance between experience and mindset.
  • Most of the time tests do not change much the user behavior so you are really not looking for the silver bullet. A failure is a learning as well.


When is the right time for a company to set up a dedicated growth team?

It requires dedicated resources. You should not try this too early. You want to look at which phase you are in: Traction, Transition or Growth (cf. first slide at the top of the notes). When you're at the growth stage you already have:

  • You already have product/market fit
  • You built traction
  • You discovered most of the growth levers


[💎@43:34] A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team.


If it's too early and you haven't fixed the basic stuff you will not benefit from a growth team.


Ten slides in ten minutes


  • UA automation: traditional top of funnel  activities are increasingly automated (UAC, FB, other platforms)
  • Mobile marketers have long been optimizing towards deeper funnel KPIs. You don't want to silo growth squads (acquisition vs. product - they could conflict), you want integrated growth where the growth team oversight covers the user lifecycle.
  • Growth squads should be created to fit the business: independant, functional, business challenges.
  • Growth teams should be autonomous, empowered, understood and trusted.
  • Any mix of Engineering/Marketing/Product/Ops/BI/Design/Project Management/Business-Commercial
  • Top down support is a must to make it work
  • Growth squad roles, responsibilities and objectives should be the primary focus of its members. No vanity metrics.
  • Leadership is typically project manager, product owner or VP growth.
  • Decisions should be data driven (you need an analyst), balanced (keeping the users experience excellent) and sustainable.


[💎@52:42] Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.



The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.

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↘ At this point, you know what to do ↙
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Growth vs. Traction

Brian Balfour's definition


In 2015 Andy went to see several companies (Airbnb, Tumblr, Facebook, Pinterest, Etsy) to understand how they were approaching growth.


There is no one single way to do growth. Each company has different problems and focus areas depending on when they set up the growth team, the size of the company.


Soundcloud

Currently 1 growth team, responsible for both acquisition and retention topics. They do not slice the user journey yet.

  • 1 PM
  • 6 Engineers
  • Marketing
  • CRM


Georgy feels like this model is a bit outdated ("2015") and doesn't make sense right now. He feels like the "project manager" role is missing because product managers can not deal both with a lot of projects + managing the engineering.


Glovo

Before there was no one dedicated to technical marketing projects and the tech team was focused on operations and they could not get the resources needed. It was also hard to get product changes like SDK implementations, etc.

So they decided to create a tech team where the main aim was to satisfied the online marketing needs. That team became more complex and cross functional, working on a lot of projects. 2 main phases:

Initially:

  • they had a "Head of AdTech Team" operating as a product manager but it was hard to manage.
  • AdTech specialist were "pure" engineers (not marketing savvy) and did not know their exact goal

Transition:

  • Hired a project manager to organize the AdTech team. Also helps solves the issues that arise.
  • Changed for an AdTech specialist that had worked in marketing and understood what he was doing, provided alternative ideas, efficiency improvements, etc.
  • Completed 100s of projects across all aspects of the business: template development, analytics, data API, etc. ⇒ instead of hiring additional persons that would do manual tasks they implemented automated reports which increased efficiency.


Balancing growth and product

Initially at SoundCloud the growth team was reporting to VP product and had design/engineering/marketing. Andy led the team as a product manager "a marketer in a product clothing".

[💎@22:21] A VP growth is usually more about the metrics whereas a VP product tends to balance the growth initiatives and the product initiatives. You can compromise the user experience if your growth team is too agressive.


At SoundCloud growth still belongs to product and VP Product balances growth and product roadmaps.


Metrics

Regarding metrics they look beyond the "vanity metrics" like DAU/MAU but they try to identify metrics that are showing retention and engagement: we want people to find music and listen to music. Some metrics that show users find what they are looking for:

  • Likes/Shares/Comments
  • Stickiness metric: what is the % of users that are active daily or weekly within a timeframe.
  • [💎@25:00] If you're acquiring a lot of users your DAU might be looking great because you are getting new people in all the time. But don't base your decision on this: dig deeper and find what makes people retain and which engagement metrics you should be tracking.


Challenges of setting up a growth team

  • Responsibility is a challenge because the team is cross-functional. Who is in charge?
  • VP of growth also needs to be open to implement innovative stuff.
  • At SoundCloud it is the project manager that leads the team but other team members come from different teams and have different managers (report to other people, not the project manager).
  • Product leader decides how to prioritize across all product team, including the growth team. Need to make sure that everyone is on the same page.
  • Phiture's clients have various setups but challenges tend to be the same
    - [💎@34:15] Getting the right people in the team who actually want to work on growth is one of the main challenges. You want to vet the people you're putting together for the "growth mindset", data driven and excited about moving metrics.
    - You don't just want people that want to "build new stuff". Same thing for designers.
    - [💎@35:23] Second challenge is to evangelize the growth mindset throughout the rest of the organization: explain why there is a need to test and learn. It helps in the early days to pick projects where you have a good chance of success and take every chance they get to explain what failed and what it means for the company in real terms.
    - The team will probably need to do this 5 or 6 times before getting buy-in from the rest of the organization.


Prioritize people with growth experience or mindset?

  • Probably mindset > experience but ideally both. If you have the mindset and the eagerness to learn you are going to get that experience relatively quickly. At Phiture they work on so many apps that everybody learns quickly.
  • On the other hand if everybody is new to it then the team will repeat mistakes. So you need a balance between experience and mindset.
  • Most of the time tests do not change much the user behavior so you are really not looking for the silver bullet. A failure is a learning as well.


When is the right time for a company to set up a dedicated growth team?

It requires dedicated resources. You should not try this too early. You want to look at which phase you are in: Traction, Transition or Growth (cf. first slide at the top of the notes). When you're at the growth stage you already have:

  • You already have product/market fit
  • You built traction
  • You discovered most of the growth levers


[💎@43:34] A lot of startup founders and companies try to jump to hypergrowth but they probably have a couple of years and finding better product/market fit before they can think about growing the growth team.


If it's too early and you haven't fixed the basic stuff you will not benefit from a growth team.


Ten slides in ten minutes


  • UA automation: traditional top of funnel  activities are increasingly automated (UAC, FB, other platforms)
  • Mobile marketers have long been optimizing towards deeper funnel KPIs. You don't want to silo growth squads (acquisition vs. product - they could conflict), you want integrated growth where the growth team oversight covers the user lifecycle.
  • Growth squads should be created to fit the business: independant, functional, business challenges.
  • Growth teams should be autonomous, empowered, understood and trusted.
  • Any mix of Engineering/Marketing/Product/Ops/BI/Design/Project Management/Business-Commercial
  • Top down support is a must to make it work
  • Growth squad roles, responsibilities and objectives should be the primary focus of its members. No vanity metrics.
  • Leadership is typically project manager, product owner or VP growth.
  • Decisions should be data driven (you need an analyst), balanced (keeping the users experience excellent) and sustainable.


[💎@52:42] Choosing the right growth team model not only unlocks growth, but also strengthens culture.