Thomas Petit on ASO, Subscription Apps & Creatives

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9

Mobile growth expert Thomas Petit on ASO, conversion optimization, what to keep in mind when optimizing UA for subscription apps and the importance of creatives.

Source:
Thomas Petit on ASO, Subscription Apps & Creatives
(no direct link to watch/listen)
(direct link to watch/listen)
Type:
Podcast
Publication date:
December 11, 2019
Added to the Vault on:
March 1, 2020
These insights were shared through the free Growth Gems newsletter.
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💎 #
1

You are left with 2 major levers on the marketing side: 1. The data/event you are feeding back to the machine/algorithm 2. The creatives you are showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!).

25:00
💎 #
2

A growing trend for non-gaming apps is to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

38:35
💎 #
3

It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

09:55
💎 #
4

Value-based optimization (VO) doesn't work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot) because if you are selling the same subscription then LTV of users is fairly similar and value optimization becomes kind of useless.

23:10
💎 #
5

Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” but the problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI.

24:12
💎 #
6

Optimizing on AEO for free trials is good because you manage to make event optimization work but problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).

25:00
💎 #
7

If you optimize for free trials Google might start optimizing exactly for that and you might end of with users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions and bring down the trial to paid subscription conversion rate.

25:12
💎 #
8

You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

27:12
💎 #
9

We are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.

36:15
The "gems" from this resource are only available to premium members.
  • Unlock access to gems from over 130 mobile growth resources
  • Define your preferred categories and receive new relevant gems directly in your inbox
  • Discuss key insights (and any other mobile growth topic) in the members-only community.
Upgrade Your Plan
💎 #
1

You are left with 2 major levers on the marketing side: 1. The data/event you are feeding back to the machine/algorithm 2. The creatives you are showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!).

25:00
💎 #
2

A growing trend for non-gaming apps is to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

38:35
💎 #
3

It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

09:55
💎 #
4

Value-based optimization (VO) doesn't work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot) because if you are selling the same subscription then LTV of users is fairly similar and value optimization becomes kind of useless.

23:10
💎 #
5

Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” but the problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI.

24:12
💎 #
6

Optimizing on AEO for free trials is good because you manage to make event optimization work but problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).

25:00
💎 #
7

If you optimize for free trials Google might start optimizing exactly for that and you might end of with users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions and bring down the trial to paid subscription conversion rate.

25:12
💎 #
8

You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

27:12
💎 #
9

We are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.

36:15
The "gems" from this resource are only available to premium members.

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💎 #
1

You are left with 2 major levers on the marketing side: 1. The data/event you are feeding back to the machine/algorithm 2. The creatives you are showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!).

25:00
💎 #
2

A growing trend for non-gaming apps is to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

38:35
💎 #
3

It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

09:55
💎 #
4

Value-based optimization (VO) doesn't work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot) because if you are selling the same subscription then LTV of users is fairly similar and value optimization becomes kind of useless.

23:10
💎 #
5

Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” but the problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI.

24:12
💎 #
6

Optimizing on AEO for free trials is good because you manage to make event optimization work but problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).

25:00
💎 #
7

If you optimize for free trials Google might start optimizing exactly for that and you might end of with users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions and bring down the trial to paid subscription conversion rate.

25:12
💎 #
8

You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

27:12
💎 #
9

We are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.

36:15
The access to discussions on each resource is only available to premium members.

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Upgrade to premium to:
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  • Define your preferred categories and receive new relevant gems directly in your inbox
  • Discuss key insights (and any other mobile growth topic) in the members-only community.
Upgrade Your Plan
The access to discussions on each resource is only available to premium members.

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Become a member to:
  • Unlock access to gems from over 130 mobile growth resources
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  • Discuss key insights (and any other mobile growth topic) in the members-only community.
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Notes for this resource are currently being transferred and will be available soon.

App Store Optimization

ASO is now a much broader thing. Today, keywords are relatively not that important:

  • Google Play: complex semantic way of guessing what the app does regardless of what you input
  • App Store: a lot more difficult to make a difference with keywords

=> Big topic is now conversion optimization through visuals (applies to everything: search, browse, advertising)

[💎@09:55] It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

Getting featured: impact lower now. Not a sustainable strategy. More helpful to indie apps.


Important of data for user acquisition

The more you go down the funnel, the more the data becomes complex (and there's more of it).

A lot of new tools have emerged. Marketers have become much more like data analysts.


How mobile marketing changes for subscription apps

When focused on subscription, you have to interpret your LTV differently.

  1. Platforms (FB and Google) have moved from optimizing for installs to optimizing for events and value-based => [💎@23:10] Doesn’t work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot). If you are selling the same subscription, LTV of users is fairly similar and Value Optimization becomes kind of useless.
  • [💎@24:12] Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” → problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI. Better if low price (or huge budget!).
  • [💎@25:00] As a result, a lot of subscription apps optimize based on free trials:
  • Good because you manage to make event optimization work,
  • BUT problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).
  • [💎@25:12] Example: Google starting to optimize exactly for these events which brought users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions (< 20 yo mostly) and brought down the trial -> paid subscription conversion rate (less than ½),
  • [💎@27:12] You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

In short: be careful what you’re optimizing for (what you need to optimize for might not be that intuitive). Thomas mentioned some tricks (not shared here).

If you’re an indie, you can’t afford the tooling and building manually is costing both time and money. Might be best to focus on the product. There’s a minimum amount that you need to trigger the optimization.


Creative optimization

On creative being the main/only differentiator (article by Miri Growth here): [💎@36:15] we are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.


"you reach a point where the creative is really where the big wins are going to be made"


[💎@37:40] It leaves you with 2 major levers on the marketing side:

  1. Which data/event am I feedback back to the machine/algorithm?
  2. Which creatives am I showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!)? -> where the big differences are made
    - You can cater to different audiences in the ad so you can show different User Selling Points
    - But you need to nail the creative in the store so all these audiences find relevance in it


[💎@38:35] A growing trend is also to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

Challenge for teams: analytical people are often less creative and vice versa. Teams should hire for both (or someone that is both, but that's rare to find).


Thoughts on the duopoly

Facebook and Google have been enablers for the mobile industry. If you can’t make Google and Facebook work for you it’s going to be extremely hard to get to the very top.


The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.
↘ At this point, you know what to do ↙
Upgrade Your Plan

App Store Optimization

ASO is now a much broader thing. Today, keywords are relatively not that important:

  • Google Play: complex semantic way of guessing what the app does regardless of what you input
  • App Store: a lot more difficult to make a difference with keywords

=> Big topic is now conversion optimization through visuals (applies to everything: search, browse, advertising)

[💎@09:55] It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

Getting featured: impact lower now. Not a sustainable strategy. More helpful to indie apps.


Important of data for user acquisition

The more you go down the funnel, the more the data becomes complex (and there's more of it).

A lot of new tools have emerged. Marketers have become much more like data analysts.


How mobile marketing changes for subscription apps

When focused on subscription, you have to interpret your LTV differently.

  1. Platforms (FB and Google) have moved from optimizing for installs to optimizing for events and value-based => [💎@23:10] Doesn’t work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot). If you are selling the same subscription, LTV of users is fairly similar and Value Optimization becomes kind of useless.
  • [💎@24:12] Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” → problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI. Better if low price (or huge budget!).
  • [💎@25:00] As a result, a lot of subscription apps optimize based on free trials:
  • Good because you manage to make event optimization work,
  • BUT problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).
  • [💎@25:12] Example: Google starting to optimize exactly for these events which brought users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions (< 20 yo mostly) and brought down the trial -> paid subscription conversion rate (less than ½),
  • [💎@27:12] You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

In short: be careful what you’re optimizing for (what you need to optimize for might not be that intuitive). Thomas mentioned some tricks (not shared here).

If you’re an indie, you can’t afford the tooling and building manually is costing both time and money. Might be best to focus on the product. There’s a minimum amount that you need to trigger the optimization.


Creative optimization

On creative being the main/only differentiator (article by Miri Growth here): [💎@36:15] we are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.


"you reach a point where the creative is really where the big wins are going to be made"


[💎@37:40] It leaves you with 2 major levers on the marketing side:

  1. Which data/event am I feedback back to the machine/algorithm?
  2. Which creatives am I showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!)? -> where the big differences are made
    - You can cater to different audiences in the ad so you can show different User Selling Points
    - But you need to nail the creative in the store so all these audiences find relevance in it


[💎@38:35] A growing trend is also to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

Challenge for teams: analytical people are often less creative and vice versa. Teams should hire for both (or someone that is both, but that's rare to find).


Thoughts on the duopoly

Facebook and Google have been enablers for the mobile industry. If you can’t make Google and Facebook work for you it’s going to be extremely hard to get to the very top.


The notes from this resource are only available to premium members.

The detailed notes taken for a resource are an easy way to see the gems in context to get a better understanding. They also include any relevant visuals from the source.
↘ At this point, you know what to do ↙
Request Access

App Store Optimization

ASO is now a much broader thing. Today, keywords are relatively not that important:

  • Google Play: complex semantic way of guessing what the app does regardless of what you input
  • App Store: a lot more difficult to make a difference with keywords

=> Big topic is now conversion optimization through visuals (applies to everything: search, browse, advertising)

[💎@09:55] It's not just about your ad CTR because if your conversion rate is low in the stores then you need to bid much higher for advertising. ASO is not enough to win, but if you don’t do it you’ll loose.

Getting featured: impact lower now. Not a sustainable strategy. More helpful to indie apps.


Important of data for user acquisition

The more you go down the funnel, the more the data becomes complex (and there's more of it).

A lot of new tools have emerged. Marketers have become much more like data analysts.


How mobile marketing changes for subscription apps

When focused on subscription, you have to interpret your LTV differently.

  1. Platforms (FB and Google) have moved from optimizing for installs to optimizing for events and value-based => [💎@23:10] Doesn’t work very well for the subscription model (vs. apps/games with huge variance in revenue - example: players that spend a lot). If you are selling the same subscription, LTV of users is fairly similar and Value Optimization becomes kind of useless.
  • [💎@24:12] Most subscription apps optimize on “have you subscribed?” → problem is that your conversion is hard to optimize for Facebook/Google when you have low conversion rates (like 2-3%) because it takes a while to train the AI. Better if low price (or huge budget!).
  • [💎@25:00] As a result, a lot of subscription apps optimize based on free trials:
  • Good because you manage to make event optimization work,
  • BUT problematic because starting a free trial doesn’t fully correlate to LTV (huge differences depending on users' age for example).
  • [💎@25:12] Example: Google starting to optimize exactly for these events which brought users that know very well how to cancel subscriptions (< 20 yo mostly) and brought down the trial -> paid subscription conversion rate (less than ½),
  • [💎@27:12] You need to look carefully at your cohorts: don’t assume they’re all going to behave the same.

In short: be careful what you’re optimizing for (what you need to optimize for might not be that intuitive). Thomas mentioned some tricks (not shared here).

If you’re an indie, you can’t afford the tooling and building manually is costing both time and money. Might be best to focus on the product. There’s a minimum amount that you need to trigger the optimization.


Creative optimization

On creative being the main/only differentiator (article by Miri Growth here): [💎@36:15] we are now at a time where the goal is to unite the data and a brillant creative concept.


"you reach a point where the creative is really where the big wins are going to be made"


[💎@37:40] It leaves you with 2 major levers on the marketing side:

  1. Which data/event am I feedback back to the machine/algorithm?
  2. Which creatives am I showing to users (⚠️ including the store page!)? -> where the big differences are made
    - You can cater to different audiences in the ad so you can show different User Selling Points
    - But you need to nail the creative in the store so all these audiences find relevance in it


[💎@38:35] A growing trend is also to have a landing page in-between the ad and the store page (even though it adds another step).

Challenge for teams: analytical people are often less creative and vice versa. Teams should hire for both (or someone that is both, but that's rare to find).


Thoughts on the duopoly

Facebook and Google have been enablers for the mobile industry. If you can’t make Google and Facebook work for you it’s going to be extremely hard to get to the very top.