Dave Bell (CEO at Gummicube) speaks about what techniques are working right now for app store optimization and shares (somewhat controversial) opinions on ASO and ASA.
Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. If you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO, it can improve ASA.
For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
With a new app in a high volume category you will need click data first, so the goal is to build relevancy. Focus on what your core set of keywords is going to be, find the related phrases (because they will index faster), target them and build a footprint as large as you can. You can then double down through ASA to improve the top keywords.
For an established app, don't be afraid to go after top keywords. Look at the themes where you're ranking well (top 10-20) and start building out a footprint that is broader.
If you have a perfect keyword metadata optimization but you're struggling to get above top 20 it's not a CTR problem that you have so think about conversion optimization.
For the Play Store, ask yourself what are the core keywords you're targeting and what are the phrases related to these keywords that have a similar audience. Then look at placements (title, short description, description). You don't want to feed Google only keywords, you want to feed it context too.
Volume and velocity is not going to have a huge impact on your search rankings, but it may have an impact on indexation time because Apple and Google will crawl your app faster.
If you're A/B testing on the Google Play store it will be traffic across all sources. Once you find a winner and choose to deploy it, look at every channel through your MMP to see how conversion has been impacted to get some channel granularity.
The reason user-facing metadata tends to perform best is because users searching for these keywords see the actual keywords and convert better, leading to better rankings.
The format of your Google Play description can be more important than where you place keywords: inside a fixed place paragraph vs. somewhere that is easier to crawl. You want to balance user experience and easiness to crawl for Google.
Even for very large apps, Gummicube still changes the selection of keywords every 30 days before Apple and Google have a linear degradation in the value that they see for older keywords. If you stop making incremental changes while competitors do, Apple and Google will start to see you as less relevant.
Usually if you convert very well for a keyword and remove it, you will continue to convert well for it. You can/should also back that up with some ASA campaigns.
Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. If you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO, it can improve ASA.
For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
With a new app in a high volume category you will need click data first, so the goal is to build relevancy. Focus on what your core set of keywords is going to be, find the related phrases (because they will index faster), target them and build a footprint as large as you can. You can then double down through ASA to improve the top keywords.
For an established app, don't be afraid to go after top keywords. Look at the themes where you're ranking well (top 10-20) and start building out a footprint that is broader.
If you have a perfect keyword metadata optimization but you're struggling to get above top 20 it's not a CTR problem that you have so think about conversion optimization.
For the Play Store, ask yourself what are the core keywords you're targeting and what are the phrases related to these keywords that have a similar audience. Then look at placements (title, short description, description). You don't want to feed Google only keywords, you want to feed it context too.
Volume and velocity is not going to have a huge impact on your search rankings, but it may have an impact on indexation time because Apple and Google will crawl your app faster.
If you're A/B testing on the Google Play store it will be traffic across all sources. Once you find a winner and choose to deploy it, look at every channel through your MMP to see how conversion has been impacted to get some channel granularity.
The reason user-facing metadata tends to perform best is because users searching for these keywords see the actual keywords and convert better, leading to better rankings.
The format of your Google Play description can be more important than where you place keywords: inside a fixed place paragraph vs. somewhere that is easier to crawl. You want to balance user experience and easiness to crawl for Google.
Even for very large apps, Gummicube still changes the selection of keywords every 30 days before Apple and Google have a linear degradation in the value that they see for older keywords. If you stop making incremental changes while competitors do, Apple and Google will start to see you as less relevant.
Usually if you convert very well for a keyword and remove it, you will continue to convert well for it. You can/should also back that up with some ASA campaigns.
Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. If you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO, it can improve ASA.
For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
With a new app in a high volume category you will need click data first, so the goal is to build relevancy. Focus on what your core set of keywords is going to be, find the related phrases (because they will index faster), target them and build a footprint as large as you can. You can then double down through ASA to improve the top keywords.
For an established app, don't be afraid to go after top keywords. Look at the themes where you're ranking well (top 10-20) and start building out a footprint that is broader.
If you have a perfect keyword metadata optimization but you're struggling to get above top 20 it's not a CTR problem that you have so think about conversion optimization.
For the Play Store, ask yourself what are the core keywords you're targeting and what are the phrases related to these keywords that have a similar audience. Then look at placements (title, short description, description). You don't want to feed Google only keywords, you want to feed it context too.
Volume and velocity is not going to have a huge impact on your search rankings, but it may have an impact on indexation time because Apple and Google will crawl your app faster.
If you're A/B testing on the Google Play store it will be traffic across all sources. Once you find a winner and choose to deploy it, look at every channel through your MMP to see how conversion has been impacted to get some channel granularity.
The reason user-facing metadata tends to perform best is because users searching for these keywords see the actual keywords and convert better, leading to better rankings.
The format of your Google Play description can be more important than where you place keywords: inside a fixed place paragraph vs. somewhere that is easier to crawl. You want to balance user experience and easiness to crawl for Google.
Even for very large apps, Gummicube still changes the selection of keywords every 30 days before Apple and Google have a linear degradation in the value that they see for older keywords. If you stop making incremental changes while competitors do, Apple and Google will start to see you as less relevant.
Usually if you convert very well for a keyword and remove it, you will continue to convert well for it. You can/should also back that up with some ASA campaigns.
Notes for this resource are currently being transferred and will be available soon.
eCommerce looks more like the App Store than the web does.
[💎 @05:24] Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Using web keywords will give you wrong volume recommendations (when you try them out in an app keywords tool) in 8 out of 10 cases.
Using Apple Search Ads data for ASO is like investing long in stock market but taking advice from day traders.
[💎 @12:25] Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
This was achieved without any Apple Search Ads Spend
Broad-based optimization works, it's not just about focusing on one keyword only.
[💎 @14:32] Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. But if you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
[💎 @16:10] The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO it can improve ASA.
After you scaled, ASA can help ASO.
[💎 @17:05] For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
Do not just think of the experience on the store listing, also think about the experience in a competitive environment like in search results and browse.
Strategy to pick keywords for new app vs. 20k downloads/day app?
Signals to know you should keep focusing on some keywords? Ranking higher means an increased CTR and it also means it should be easier to rank for similar terms. Once you get in top 10-20, evaluate if other people are targeting these keywords.
Focus on keywords with rank >100 or trying to get to top 3? It's best to focus on the terms/phrases relevant to the features of your app and how you can build an optimization that over time feeds relevancy. If you're already ranking, think about increasing conversion
Different sources of traffic and reading results of an A/B test? You want to use multiple techniques.
How many days before judging that a keyword optimization worked?
Weight of IAP keywords for iTunes? It's a good practice but probably not more weight than other keywords.
Number of apps in 1 Google Play account matters? Has not really seen a limit but you want to evaluate how you are treating your premium apps (vs. having multiple low value apps). If you have 20 apps out of 100 that are important to you, you might want to separate them.
Any free tools for keyword analysis? Most of the free tools are pulling data from the web, lower price tools tend to get data from ASA. So you have to understand how you can compensate for the flaws in the dataset. Instead, you might want to make searches yourself in the stores (based on your app's features) to find which keywords to target.
Putting keywords at the front of your Google Play description? Google will be crawling the beginning first.
Should you start ASA on specific geo before rolling out globally? There is a learning process by platforms about your app. For ASO unless it's a private beta or soft launch, get your metadata out as soon as possible.
Do you lose ranking for keywords you remove from your metadata?
Broad keywords for chess apps? For an app like that, there are core keywords. Understand the themes and variations that have a similar audience behind them.
Competitive brand terms in keywords field? Some brands just don't want to do it. When Apple reviews your submission, whether your app is approved depends on the individual reviewer. If you want to be competitive, you should try that if there is legitimate relevance. You may already rank for that keyword. Dave estimated a rejection at 1/40 times.
Repeat important keywords in the description? If you do it, do it because it is valuable and natural to the end user. For the description it's however more about the structure.
eCommerce looks more like the App Store than the web does.
[💎 @05:24] Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Using web keywords will give you wrong volume recommendations (when you try them out in an app keywords tool) in 8 out of 10 cases.
Using Apple Search Ads data for ASO is like investing long in stock market but taking advice from day traders.
[💎 @12:25] Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
This was achieved without any Apple Search Ads Spend
Broad-based optimization works, it's not just about focusing on one keyword only.
[💎 @14:32] Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. But if you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
[💎 @16:10] The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO it can improve ASA.
After you scaled, ASA can help ASO.
[💎 @17:05] For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
Do not just think of the experience on the store listing, also think about the experience in a competitive environment like in search results and browse.
Strategy to pick keywords for new app vs. 20k downloads/day app?
Signals to know you should keep focusing on some keywords? Ranking higher means an increased CTR and it also means it should be easier to rank for similar terms. Once you get in top 10-20, evaluate if other people are targeting these keywords.
Focus on keywords with rank >100 or trying to get to top 3? It's best to focus on the terms/phrases relevant to the features of your app and how you can build an optimization that over time feeds relevancy. If you're already ranking, think about increasing conversion
Different sources of traffic and reading results of an A/B test? You want to use multiple techniques.
How many days before judging that a keyword optimization worked?
Weight of IAP keywords for iTunes? It's a good practice but probably not more weight than other keywords.
Number of apps in 1 Google Play account matters? Has not really seen a limit but you want to evaluate how you are treating your premium apps (vs. having multiple low value apps). If you have 20 apps out of 100 that are important to you, you might want to separate them.
Any free tools for keyword analysis? Most of the free tools are pulling data from the web, lower price tools tend to get data from ASA. So you have to understand how you can compensate for the flaws in the dataset. Instead, you might want to make searches yourself in the stores (based on your app's features) to find which keywords to target.
Putting keywords at the front of your Google Play description? Google will be crawling the beginning first.
Should you start ASA on specific geo before rolling out globally? There is a learning process by platforms about your app. For ASO unless it's a private beta or soft launch, get your metadata out as soon as possible.
Do you lose ranking for keywords you remove from your metadata?
Broad keywords for chess apps? For an app like that, there are core keywords. Understand the themes and variations that have a similar audience behind them.
Competitive brand terms in keywords field? Some brands just don't want to do it. When Apple reviews your submission, whether your app is approved depends on the individual reviewer. If you want to be competitive, you should try that if there is legitimate relevance. You may already rank for that keyword. Dave estimated a rejection at 1/40 times.
Repeat important keywords in the description? If you do it, do it because it is valuable and natural to the end user. For the description it's however more about the structure.
eCommerce looks more like the App Store than the web does.
[💎 @05:24] Apple will tell you "do not use search ads data for ASO" because the timeframe of the trend they are reporting is short term. You can not use a short timeframe for ASO because it takes 2-3 weeks to get your keywords fully indexed.
Using web keywords will give you wrong volume recommendations (when you try them out in an app keywords tool) in 8 out of 10 cases.
Using Apple Search Ads data for ASO is like investing long in stock market but taking advice from day traders.
[💎 @12:25] Apple will still index you for 2 to 3 weeks after an update. If you have good rankings already, you can do keyword metadata optimization every 30 days and have a solid view of how an optimization performed.
This was achieved without any Apple Search Ads Spend
Broad-based optimization works, it's not just about focusing on one keyword only.
[💎 @14:32] Paid marketing can support organic success but organic success is not a pay-to-play model. But if you do not set the foundation with ASO then you won't get volume for ASA.
[💎 @16:10] The Apple Search Ads algorithm does crawl descriptions. So even though your description does not improve ASO it can improve ASA.
After you scaled, ASA can help ASO.
[💎 @17:05] For new apps or during major updates, ASA can help achieve 2x-3x indexation speed for keywords (it provides additional CTR data).
Do not just think of the experience on the store listing, also think about the experience in a competitive environment like in search results and browse.
Strategy to pick keywords for new app vs. 20k downloads/day app?
Signals to know you should keep focusing on some keywords? Ranking higher means an increased CTR and it also means it should be easier to rank for similar terms. Once you get in top 10-20, evaluate if other people are targeting these keywords.
Focus on keywords with rank >100 or trying to get to top 3? It's best to focus on the terms/phrases relevant to the features of your app and how you can build an optimization that over time feeds relevancy. If you're already ranking, think about increasing conversion
Different sources of traffic and reading results of an A/B test? You want to use multiple techniques.
How many days before judging that a keyword optimization worked?
Weight of IAP keywords for iTunes? It's a good practice but probably not more weight than other keywords.
Number of apps in 1 Google Play account matters? Has not really seen a limit but you want to evaluate how you are treating your premium apps (vs. having multiple low value apps). If you have 20 apps out of 100 that are important to you, you might want to separate them.
Any free tools for keyword analysis? Most of the free tools are pulling data from the web, lower price tools tend to get data from ASA. So you have to understand how you can compensate for the flaws in the dataset. Instead, you might want to make searches yourself in the stores (based on your app's features) to find which keywords to target.
Putting keywords at the front of your Google Play description? Google will be crawling the beginning first.
Should you start ASA on specific geo before rolling out globally? There is a learning process by platforms about your app. For ASO unless it's a private beta or soft launch, get your metadata out as soon as possible.
Do you lose ranking for keywords you remove from your metadata?
Broad keywords for chess apps? For an app like that, there are core keywords. Understand the themes and variations that have a similar audience behind them.
Competitive brand terms in keywords field? Some brands just don't want to do it. When Apple reviews your submission, whether your app is approved depends on the individual reviewer. If you want to be competitive, you should try that if there is legitimate relevance. You may already rank for that keyword. Dave estimated a rejection at 1/40 times.
Repeat important keywords in the description? If you do it, do it because it is valuable and natural to the end user. For the description it's however more about the structure.
